Sky customer service gone to pot?

[TimmyBGood]

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@MarkGoldsmith wrote:

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@turnbacktime wrote:

It is unintelligible, it appears designed to confuse the subscriber.

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 Changes to the model for + and Q would just be far too complicated to roll out for both Sky and customers. 

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And with those platforms having maybe five more years before satellite television isn't a thing any more, it's just not something anyone would want to tackle anyway.

[turnbacktime]

You really think 5 years? I doubt it. There will still be significant chunks of the country without adequate broadband to genuinely replace satellite with Sky Stream/Glass. Take a family with, say, 3 sets in a multi room plus kids gaming and someone working from home.

No way you will do that on an FTTC connection. And many are years away from FTTP.

[TimmyBGood]

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@turnbacktime wrote:

You really think 5 years? 

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That's based on the anticipated end of life of the three current Astra satellites at 28.2E before they expend the last of their positioning propellant and have to be deorbited.  

Maintaining satellite broadcasting to the UK would require replacing these with new orbiting platforms, and so far SES (the owners: Sky has never had its own satellites) has made no such announcement.

Building and launching broadcast satellites costs about £100,000,000 per unit with a significant lead time, and requires an expected financial return over at least a decade to pay this back: the question has to be whether it's now worth anyone investing in what's effectively a 1990s technology given internet media distribution is considerably cheaper.

The current SES contract with Sky runs to the end of 2028.

[TimmyBGood]

@turnbacktime 

https://rxtvinfo.com/2024/how-soon-is-satellite-tv-switch-off/ 

[TimmyBGood]

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@turnbacktime wrote:

No way you will do that on an FTTC connection. And many are years away from FTTP.

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The Openreach target to get FTTP availability at the 80% of UK addresses where it's commercially viable is the end of 2026, and they claim to be on schedule.  In many places there will also be altnet provision.

The real challenge is the remaining 20% where installation cost exceeds realistic future commercial earnings.  Whether that means government chooses to step in to either insist on continuing satellite provision (tricky in a privatised industry) or subsidies ultrafast (during a fiscal crunch) is essentially a political decision.

[turnbacktime]

The government is already subsidising FTTP. Gigaclear are currently rolling out FTTP  in our village with government funding. Already slipped 12 months from project timeline. Openreach slipped from 2023 to a current estimate of end of 2026. And we are a village of 4500 people straddling an A road so hardly a minor rural community.

I fully expect SES will extend life of current satellites, probably with a reduced SLA over time.

anyway this is getting away from original topic, appalling customer service by Sky.

Telling me my price was held when it wasn't. Existing long term customers faced with a pricing lottery depending on exactly when they are able to ring in. An effective downgrade in package which wasn't mentioned and was specifically told I had exactly the same. The correction to the "downgrade" resulting in an additional £10 admin charge I wasn't informed of. The fiddling with discounts resulting in my being told I was expecting to return equipment I didn't have to. A months bill that contains 30+ line items for the TV package,

The lady I spoke to when cancelling the returns summed it up when she said the system was too complicated and too easy for agents to miss things and to have perform complicated multi step processes instead of one simple one. To the extent that when they get a call they have to spend quite a while working out what the previous agent had done. Because every agent can, and does, do it differently to get to the same end result. She said she could have given my Netflix Premium back in one action, not a cancellation, read and two other discounts.

Sorry but it is a mess as an operation. And, IMHO, leaves the more vulnerable among their customers open to being ripped off. I am just **bleep** off. But having a system that means that more vulnerable customers pay over the odds just because they can't fight the system isn't acceptable. And Sky should be ashamed of it.

[Roger17]

Ofcom are looking at this, and it does cover pay TV services as well as Broadband/Mobile contracts. Consultation finished 13th Febuary with the report to be issued Spring 2024 with requiements being implemented 4 months later.

It is about time pricing became transparent as @turnbacktime says it is unfair on the more vunerable who can't/won't negotiate a new contract. I admit transparent pricing my mean some customers who can get good deals will end up paying more, but at least you will know what you are having to pay from day 1. My  broadband provider does just this £27 a month for 500mb fibre for the 2 year contact - simple, and yes they do offer exsting customers the same price as new customers.

Even as an existing customer to get a price for stream is impossible, go on line and it redirects to Glass which I dont want, go on a as new customer it only show a deal price. Phone Sky and speak to several advisors and still you do not get a defenitive response.

[TimmyBGood]

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@Roger17 wrote:

Ofcom are looking at this, and it does cover pay TV services as well as Broadband/Mobile contracts. Consultation finished 13th Febuary with the report to be issued Spring 2024 with requiements being implemented 4 months later.

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Perhaps worth noting that Ofcom aren't proposing the end of either-out-of-contract or mid-contract rises: that's both outside their regulatory remit and economically nonsensical in an inflationary environment.

The proposal is that broadband and mobile providers will have to put a pounds and pence figure on a mid-contract rise, rather than a percentage which is unknown at the time the contract is agreed.

https://www.ofcom.org.uk/news-centre/2023/ban-on-inflation-linked-mid-contract-price-rise 

[MarkGoldsmith]

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@TimmyBGood wrote:

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@Roger17 wrote:

Ofcom are looking at this, and it does cover pay TV services as well as Broadband/Mobile contracts. Consultation finished 13th Febuary with the report to be issued Spring 2024 with requiements being implemented 4 months later.

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Perhaps worth noting that Ofcom aren't proposing the end of either-out-of-contract or mid-contract rises: that's both outside their regulatory remit and economically nonsensical in an inflationary environment.

The proposal is that broadband and mobile providers will have to put a pounds and pence figure on a mid-contract rise, rather than a percentage which is unknown at the time the contract is agreed.

https://www.ofcom.org.uk/news-centre/2023/ban-on-inflation-linked-mid-contract-price-rise 

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Indeed and as most people have figured, should this become the recommendation the annual price rises will in all likelihood be higher than they historically would have been as providers have to predict where inflation may go over the course of a 18 or 24 month contract. Likely leading to them always using a higher value as they protect themselves from longer term cost increases.

[Roger17]

I will wait to see what Ofcom announce.

I know Suppliers won't be prevented from Mid or out of contract rises, but hopefully they will have to detail what those increase are mid contract  at the start of the contract, and be forced into a clear pricing structure at the start of each contract, not figures that  a supplier advisor decides on the day you phone up if you are an existing customer looking to renew.

Wouldn't it be nice for Sky to release and app such as Netflix, Disney and HBO (Will launch in UK in 2026 when agreement with Sky concludes- save on VPN and $apple vouchers to subscribe.) where you know exactly what you pay, although that obviously doesn't suit their hidden price model. I know they have now TV but they do restict content on that

[TimmyBGood]

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@Roger17 wrote:

Wouldn't it be nice for Sky to release and app such as Netflix, Disney and HBO 

Sky has a 35 year heritage as a hardware company and broadcast platform: transitioning to software delivery and trying to compete with the much younger streamers on price would require a complete restructuring (and presumably massive downsizing) of the business, and that's not what Comcast would have anticipated when they paid 39 billion dollars for Sky Group in 2018.

[TimmyBGood]

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@Roger17 wrote:

 not figures that  a supplier advisor decides on the day you phone up if you are an existing customer looking to renew.

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Actually the regular (undiscounted) pricing to which each product and add-on will revert at the end of a minimum term (subject to the annual price rise) is in the small print ('Here's the legal bit) on the website.

What's entirely unpredictable is if any discount on those list prices will be available at the point of renewal, and what percentage that might be.

[Roger17]

Once other streamers such as HBO who supply much of Sky's product come on line with their own apps sky will no longer have as such a strong hold. Hopefully the next time football comes up for renewal the Football will go to a streamer such as Apple or even HBO.  It is interesting that F1 have launched an app in the states that allows viewing to see each race with Ads for free 5 hours after each race. 

Hopefully the days of sky holding a monopoly will come to an end in the next few years.

I know many people who are now looking at legal (not via IPTV) ways of watching the content they want at a price, this will only increase in the future with the extortionate prices Sky now charge without discount, although finding an actual list price for any Sky service without discount is next to impossible to find in the public domain.

[turnbacktime]

I find it amazing that the Premier League hasn't come up with its own streaming app for the UK. It is getting increasingly common among major sports. Woukd certainly be better than having to subscribe to three different services to get all your teams televised matches.

I wonder how viable the dedicated streaming platforms are vs the multi provide platforms like Netflix and Prime. Is their really enough good content on them to make them viable? Look across many of them and there is very little there. Even though platforms are spending a fortune on new content. Many of them are struggling as their streaming operations are haemorraghing money.

I, and I suspect many others, subscribe for a month, watch a series or a couple of films and then cancel.

[Roger17]

To put things into perspective with regards to competing younger streamers on price HBO is owned by Warner Brother who yes may have a smaller net worth than Comcast but are still in the region of $53billion, so are not doing too badly out of HBO and also bring along their large movie library. 

Of course Sky will survive as some customers will always want the all in package, but as more fibre comes on line and more companies stream they will lose a good percentage of exsting customers who are fed up with the way they are currently treated.