Advice/Feedback when buying a new router. Home Network is a little complex

[neversettledsoul]

Hello All, 

I am reaching out to you guys in the hope that I will be able to get some guidance or feedback on how I should go about achieving my goal of having a efficient home network, which meets my requirements. 

Background: Large house 3 levels, L1, L2, L3, internet used and accessed most of the time, having frequent netowrk dropouts causing headache and lost time.
Current ISP: Virgin Media M100 plan.
Router: Stock VM Hub 3.0
Speed Range: 100 - 110 Mbps GMDS: 54 Mbps, Upload Speeds: 10 - 25 Mbps
Internal Mesh: BT Whole Home Premium, 3 disc

So into the scenario, very unhappy with my current ISP and will be leaving them soon, moving to Sky, signed up for their FTTP product, Ultrafast BB, which will go live by mid May. I have a large kitchen/conservatory which I have made into a family hangout room where during the day most of my family crash, this area and garden were a no-go area as wifi would not reach there, so I got the BT mesh system. 

I also have started to setup a Smart home on Apple Homekit, with smart lights, sensors, alarms, smart switches, which will be integrated into the Home's wifi system. I have a Sky Q with 4 Mini box setup for enteratinment and in the near future about 4 Homepod Mini's that will with Siri help manage the home. 

I need your help/feedback on what router I need to get so it helps me have a stable and robust wifi network. After trying out the VM hub and reading on other forums the stock hubs/router provided by the ISP's does not handle the role well and it buckles under the pressure. The router will be performing the duties of traffic management, DNS, DHCP, and managing 3 seperate networks in the house elaborated below:

1. Handles and manages Sky Q entertainment
2. Smart Home IOT: Homekit products, alarm system, lighting, etc. 
3. Home wifi network for laptops, computers, smart devices
4. Guest Wifi system - isolated from above 3. 

The master socket, router, 8/16 port  Gigabot ethernet switch and main BT disc linked via cat5/ cat6 ethernet cable is on the 1st floor (L2),  The Sky Q system is spread over the  whole house, will be connected by ethernet cable between Q and mini and also plugged into the Switch (on a minimum the main Q will be plugged into the Switch), so hopefully no clash over bandwidth. The 2 BT discs are on L1 acting as AP's so I have good wifi coverage everywhere extended to the garden as well. 

I dont want to break the bank for the router as well, so hope you might be able to shed some light on what router would be able to my requirements. If you have any other suggestions or feedback then please do let me know as I am open to suggestion.   

[TimmyBGood]

@neversettledsoul 

First thing to note is that on Ultrafast if you don't use the Sky Hub, you will have no landline telephony.  If that's important to you, another approach is required.

[Chrisee]

@neversettledsoul second issue to consider is if you remove the Sky hub and you cannot hard wire every Sky Q box to an access point or your new router that you will have to manage multiple 5GHz wifi networks. By default the Sky Q kit uses ch36 80MHz signal that interferes with ch36 to ch52. Multiple mesh solutions in one property often cause more issues than they solve.

My own solution all be it for a simpler system - my home automation kit is mainly on a separate Zigbee network - is to use powerline connection to a Q box on each level that gives me decent wifi - 400Mb/s - coverage in all rooms the spped being set by the practical performance of the Devolo 1200+ units on my mains wiring. One of the Devolo unit feeds a downstream switch which connects to the Main Q box, my TV etc giving rock solid streaming etc.

[neversettledsoul]

@TimmyBGood Well the IP telephony is not a deal breaker. We all use mobile phones, but in the case that if I wanted the VoIP, is there a feasible solution that would allow a setup that meets my requirements. 

I am aware that the Q system willl set up their own mesh system, ideally I would prefer the wired option, but the distance between the mini boxes and the placement of the ONT make the complete wired option a tad difficult. 

[neversettledsoul]

@Chrisee Thank you for bringing the Channel and bandwidth to my attention. I was looking for this information for a long time. The solution you gave me for powerline is a little miss and go, My house has been built up/developed over the past 2 decades, so the wiring albeit safe, I would not want to run a powerline on them as each level has seperate rings so if one trips the others would carry on as normal. 

I dont really want to be managing many networks. I have had enough of that. From my understanding I am aware that the Q setup will create a new Mesh system in the house for them to communicate which is over Channel 36 80Mhz signal. Is that Q mesh over the 5Ghx frequency or 2.4Ghz. At this moment in time, the Q is creating its secure network for it to function properly. 

Have you dealt with the Sky Q hub 4.2, how are its routing and management capabilities. 

[jamesn123]

@neversettledsoul 

The Q mesh is over the 5ghz frequency. Regarding the hub 4.2, in my experience its a very good little hub but it can get swamped if you have over 25ish devices especially if you leave it in auto mode for the frequency selection

[neversettledsoul]

Hello @jamesn123 Thanks for the clarification on the frequency. So I know for a fact that I will be having around  30 devices connected over the network at most times. 20 minimum. That number will increase in all certainty over time as I add other smart devices. 

With that in mind, I wanted to create a 3 robust networks that can handle this requirements. The bandwidht will also not be clogged as Q would be seperate network. IOT and Homekit on a seperate network, and then the phones and laptop on small netowrk. 

Any ideas or tips would be super beneficial. 

[TimmyBGood]

@neversettledsoul 

No one has yet posted a solution for using Sky Talk over VOIP without a Sky Hub, as the Terminal Adapter is built into it and the relevant settings/ credentials are undocumented.  VOIP from other providers using ethernet should be viable.

[neversettledsoul]

@TimmyBGood Thanks for the update, so as of now, using a third party router to manage the network is out of the question.  Thanks again for sharing the information., I learn something new everyday.

[jamesn123]

@neversettledsoul 

Using the Q hub as a modem & for your phone is the best solution. Then you can add a 3rd party router infront of the Sky hub to manage WiFi & routing so the Sky hub isnt swamped.

[TimmyBGood]

@jamesn123 

I'm not sure anyone has confirmed Sky Talk over VOIP functions in that configuration: would be interesting to know.

Unless you mean third party router behind the Hub?

[jamesn123]

@TimmyBGood 

Yeah meant Broadband line > Sky Hub > 3rd Party router.

[neversettledsoul]

@TimmyBGood @jamesn123 So as you guys have suggested, could I theoretically have a router behind the Sky HUb 4.2 complementing it and not replacing it, taking the role of DHCP server, traffic management and maybe manage the wifi networks?

[Chrisee · Accepted solution]

@neversettledsoul that set up will work with most but not all applications. The Sky hub has no modem mode so you second router cannot access the public IP address so you have a  double NAT set up which causes some apps to fail. Typically these include private vpns and some gaming features like chat. Features on some routers like parental control also not work through a Double NAT.

If you have Q boxes as I previously pointed out they have limitations when used with third party routers so are best left connected to the Sky hubs wifi or hard wired. Connecting them to a router in a double NAT set up can cause stablity issues. 

A lot of the issues with larger networks and the SR203 DHCP server were solved in a recent firmware update. My own system runs with around 25 devices and is completly stable however YMMV. 

[mae-3]

Double NAT will cause an issue when you cannot forward the traffic accordingly through both routers or a firewall and router. But generally, it will work just fine even with chat on an Xbox or multiplayer games with the forwarding correctly done. If it does cause an issue then throw away the Sky router!